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	<title>Comments on: That Disappointing VDARE interview with Ron Paul</title>
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	<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5585</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5585</guid>
		<description>An interesting piece of info from Dr. Paul's &lt;a href="http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results" rel="nofollow"&gt;website&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;b&gt;Ron Paul's Head-to-Head Records (Win-Lose-Tie): &lt;/b&gt;
Rudy Giuliani &lt;b&gt;23-3-0&lt;/b&gt; 
&lt;i&gt;Mitt Romney &lt;b&gt;15-11-0&lt;/b&gt; 
Fred Thompson &lt;b&gt;13-12-0&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; 
John McCain &lt;b&gt;22-3-0&lt;/b&gt; 
Mike Huckabee &lt;b&gt;21-3-1&lt;/b&gt; 
Sam Brownback &lt;b&gt;22-2-1&lt;/b&gt; 
Tom Tancredo &lt;b&gt;23-1-0&lt;/b&gt; 
Duncan Hunter &lt;b&gt;22-2-0&lt;/b&gt; 

...but this guy can't get any traction in the MSM or national polls?

I mean, it's Ron Paul's website, so consider the source.  But if Romney and Thompson are the only two real contenders he has, what much better position is that than even "conservative" news (eg, FOX, &lt;i&gt;NRO&lt;/i&gt;) would have us believe?

And I have my doubts as to whether Romney's mormonism or either his or Thompson's &lt;i&gt;very&lt;/i&gt; [socially] liberal records have been made enough of to the GOP's conservative Christian base.  I know several people who were leaning towards Romney who had no clue about his ties to "Western Islam."  Oddly enough, they aren't so excited about him anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting piece of info from Dr. Paul&#8217;s <a href="http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results" rel="nofollow">website</a>:</p>
<p><b>Ron Paul&#8217;s Head-to-Head Records (Win-Lose-Tie): </b><br />
Rudy Giuliani <b>23-3-0</b><br />
<i>Mitt Romney <b>15-11-0</b><br />
Fred Thompson <b>13-12-0</b></i><br />
John McCain <b>22-3-0</b><br />
Mike Huckabee <b>21-3-1</b><br />
Sam Brownback <b>22-2-1</b><br />
Tom Tancredo <b>23-1-0</b><br />
Duncan Hunter <b>22-2-0</b> </p>
<p>&#8230;but this guy can&#8217;t get any traction in the MSM or national polls?</p>
<p>I mean, it&#8217;s Ron Paul&#8217;s website, so consider the source.  But if Romney and Thompson are the only two real contenders he has, what much better position is that than even &#8220;conservative&#8221; news (eg, FOX, <i>NRO</i>) would have us believe?</p>
<p>And I have my doubts as to whether Romney&#8217;s mormonism or either his or Thompson&#8217;s <i>very</i> [socially] liberal records have been made enough of to the GOP&#8217;s conservative Christian base.  I know several people who were leaning towards Romney who had no clue about his ties to &#8220;Western Islam.&#8221;  Oddly enough, they aren&#8217;t so excited about him anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5368</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 01:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5368</guid>
		<description>A Texas Reader comments on the VDARE interview:

http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_091507.htm#b2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Texas Reader comments on the VDARE interview:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_091507.htm#b2" rel="nofollow">http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_091507.htm#b2</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5366</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 00:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5366</guid>
		<description>Republican politicians are generally worthless, as are Democratic politicians.  There's not a dime's worth a difference.  But Republican voters typically support a smaller role for government, however frustrated they may be as they see their elected officials abandon those principles. 

The people at the Republican grassroots do not support the Bush policies and Ron Paul's success is partially a release of this frustration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Republican politicians are generally worthless, as are Democratic politicians.  There&#8217;s not a dime&#8217;s worth a difference.  But Republican voters typically support a smaller role for government, however frustrated they may be as they see their elected officials abandon those principles. </p>
<p>The people at the Republican grassroots do not support the Bush policies and Ron Paul&#8217;s success is partially a release of this frustration.</p>
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		<title>By: s</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5365</link>
		<dc:creator>s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 00:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5365</guid>
		<description>Your argument that people that don't vote Democratic are pro liberties?  This is a joke.  Neo conservative Republicans that constitute the majority of the elected Republican body in congress and the whitehouse are very anti civil liberties all in the name of "terrorism".  The same "terrorism" threat that Saddam Hussein posed on our nation with his WMDs, which where (not surprisingly) not found by our very capable military.

A few months ago an environmental group was held under the Patriot Act provisions, which were only meant for terrorists.  At what point do pretend Libertarians that vote for the current Republican policies need to take cover and hide their heads in shame for their conduct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument that people that don&#8217;t vote Democratic are pro liberties?  This is a joke.  Neo conservative Republicans that constitute the majority of the elected Republican body in congress and the whitehouse are very anti civil liberties all in the name of &#8220;terrorism&#8221;.  The same &#8220;terrorism&#8221; threat that Saddam Hussein posed on our nation with his WMDs, which where (not surprisingly) not found by our very capable military.</p>
<p>A few months ago an environmental group was held under the Patriot Act provisions, which were only meant for terrorists.  At what point do pretend Libertarians that vote for the current Republican policies need to take cover and hide their heads in shame for their conduct?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5360</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5360</guid>
		<description>Of course, these are minor concerns when you compare Paul to the other "top tier" candidates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, these are minor concerns when you compare Paul to the other &#8220;top tier&#8221; candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5358</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5358</guid>
		<description>Stephan, I am disappointed by the views expressed in the interview that sound supportive of unlimited legal immigration.  In the context of no birthright citizenship and no welfare, and if restricted to culturally compatible groups, this is not necessarily a horrible view.  My concern is whether ending birthright citizenship and welfare is a precondition in Paul's view to such a proposed expansion of legal immigration.  The interview made him sound like a left-libertarian on the issue, i.e. pro-open-borders as long as it is done through a legal process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephan, I am disappointed by the views expressed in the interview that sound supportive of unlimited legal immigration.  In the context of no birthright citizenship and no welfare, and if restricted to culturally compatible groups, this is not necessarily a horrible view.  My concern is whether ending birthright citizenship and welfare is a precondition in Paul&#8217;s view to such a proposed expansion of legal immigration.  The interview made him sound like a left-libertarian on the issue, i.e. pro-open-borders as long as it is done through a legal process.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephan Kinsella</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5349</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephan Kinsella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5349</guid>
		<description>Tom, you say you are disappointed--I'm not clear why. Are you saying you are disappointed that he is anti-open-borders, or that he is too friendly to immigration? What exactly is your criticism? You seem to think it's self-evident, and maybe it is to people who know what your own views on immigration are, but I don't, so it's not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, you say you are disappointed&#8211;I&#8217;m not clear why. Are you saying you are disappointed that he is anti-open-borders, or that he is too friendly to immigration? What exactly is your criticism? You seem to think it&#8217;s self-evident, and maybe it is to people who know what your own views on immigration are, but I don&#8217;t, so it&#8217;s not.</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5339</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 05:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5339</guid>
		<description>I'm trying to give Paul the benefit of the doubt on legal immigration.  Maybe, like &lt;a href="http://www.competeamerica.org/news/alliance_pr/gov_letter_9-11-07.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;Perry and his gang of 13&lt;/a&gt;, he believes the hype about the innocuous H-1b's, which we all know are capped at 65,000 &lt;i&gt; per annum&lt;/i&gt;.

(Of course, all of us Texans -- or, more precisely, all you Texans and us proud residents of the Republic -- know that Perry's really only saying that because he's a &lt;a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/22/politics/main2502422.shtml" rel="nofollow"&gt;corporate&lt;/a&gt;and &lt;a href="http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17892" rel="nofollow"&gt;foreign-interests&lt;/a&gt;  shill... makes you wonder about Schwarzenegger, Naploitano, et al. -- OK, I don't wonder; they're probably just not as brazenly bought-and-paid-for)

Or maybe Paul just hasn't seen State's own statistics -- the ones where they report that the combined H-1b and L-1 issuances for FY 2006 topped 200,000, or that all combined visas are in the 4-5 &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;MILLION&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; neighborhood annually, or that ICE and the State Dept. have no real way of tracking who stays and who goes when the visas expire, by and large.  (Sorry I can't provide the link; I read the report earlier this week and I can't find it now)  And maybe he doesn't know anyone whose "tech jobs" (like mechanical engineers) have been off-shored or taken from Americans and given to a foreigner. (Because $30k &lt;i&gt;sans&lt;/i&gt; benefits is reasonable and customary for a mechnical RPE, right?  Why are there no qualified Americans for that salary?)

No, I think Paul is the &lt;a href="http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=613#Paul" rel="nofollow"&gt;clear choice&lt;/a&gt; in the GOP; and the Dems aren't even  a blip on the radar screen.  From a constitutional standpoint, I find it hard to disagree with him, but hid free-market analysis seems to neglect the fact that consumers can't consume if they aren't making any money.

Still, sealing the borders and deporting all offenders -- &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; a &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback" rel="nofollow"&gt;pipe dream&lt;/a&gt; -- will at least solve the lion's share of the problem.  Then we could all turn our attention to the &lt;i&gt;legal&lt;/i&gt; immigration invasion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to give Paul the benefit of the doubt on legal immigration.  Maybe, like <a href="http://www.competeamerica.org/news/alliance_pr/gov_letter_9-11-07.pdf" rel="nofollow">Perry and his gang of 13</a>, he believes the hype about the innocuous H-1b&#8217;s, which we all know are capped at 65,000 <i> per annum</i>.</p>
<p>(Of course, all of us Texans &#8212; or, more precisely, all you Texans and us proud residents of the Republic &#8212; know that Perry&#8217;s really only saying that because he&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/22/politics/main2502422.shtml" rel="nofollow">corporate</a>and <a href="http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17892" rel="nofollow">foreign-interests</a>  shill&#8230; makes you wonder about Schwarzenegger, Naploitano, et al. &#8212; OK, I don&#8217;t wonder; they&#8217;re probably just not as brazenly bought-and-paid-for)</p>
<p>Or maybe Paul just hasn&#8217;t seen State&#8217;s own statistics &#8212; the ones where they report that the combined H-1b and L-1 issuances for FY 2006 topped 200,000, or that all combined visas are in the 4-5 <b><i>MILLION</i></b> neighborhood annually, or that ICE and the State Dept. have no real way of tracking who stays and who goes when the visas expire, by and large.  (Sorry I can&#8217;t provide the link; I read the report earlier this week and I can&#8217;t find it now)  And maybe he doesn&#8217;t know anyone whose &#8220;tech jobs&#8221; (like mechanical engineers) have been off-shored or taken from Americans and given to a foreigner. (Because $30k <i>sans</i> benefits is reasonable and customary for a mechnical RPE, right?  Why are there no qualified Americans for that salary?)</p>
<p>No, I think Paul is the <a href="http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=613#Paul" rel="nofollow">clear choice</a> in the GOP; and the Dems aren&#8217;t even  a blip on the radar screen.  From a constitutional standpoint, I find it hard to disagree with him, but hid free-market analysis seems to neglect the fact that consumers can&#8217;t consume if they aren&#8217;t making any money.</p>
<p>Still, sealing the borders and deporting all offenders &#8212; <i>not</i> a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback" rel="nofollow">pipe dream</a> &#8212; will at least solve the lion&#8217;s share of the problem.  Then we could all turn our attention to the <i>legal</i> immigration invasion.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5337</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5337</guid>
		<description>There's still the political problem.  Legal immigrants have children, who are entitled to birthright citizenship, whose voting later in life in ethnic blocks will tend to undo the framework of a free market.  It's not an &lt;strong&gt;accident of history&lt;/strong&gt; that Mexico is a socialist basketcase, or that Africa is still in the most primitive form of civilization.

Societies are created by people, and the diversity in the quality of societies is a function of real differences between groups of people, many of which are probably biologically based and intractable.

As I've said before: Freedom, Democracy, Multiculturalism.  Pick Two.  Even if we drop democracy (as Hoppe would recommend), I think history has shown that Western man lacks the moral courage to take a place of leadership without succumbing to guilt-inducing Marxist arguments that eventually causes him to unravel all of the good in the name of the false god of Equality.  The Confederacy was about the only society self-confident enough for such a feat, and I think you see shadows of that today in Texas where native business leaders engage large armies of immigrant labor without feeling any guilt about it.  But as they will find out, the Texas of today, unlike the Confederacy, is one-man-one-vote, and what happened to California will eventually happen here if current trends continue.
So libertarians are in a pickle here: open borders makes the sort of free society advocated by libertarians impossible, not in the abstract (which is the favorite destination of most libertarians), but due to the personnel limitations on the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s still the political problem.  Legal immigrants have children, who are entitled to birthright citizenship, whose voting later in life in ethnic blocks will tend to undo the framework of a free market.  It&#8217;s not an <strong>accident of history</strong> that Mexico is a socialist basketcase, or that Africa is still in the most primitive form of civilization.</p>
<p>Societies are created by people, and the diversity in the quality of societies is a function of real differences between groups of people, many of which are probably biologically based and intractable.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said before: Freedom, Democracy, Multiculturalism.  Pick Two.  Even if we drop democracy (as Hoppe would recommend), I think history has shown that Western man lacks the moral courage to take a place of leadership without succumbing to guilt-inducing Marxist arguments that eventually causes him to unravel all of the good in the name of the false god of Equality.  The Confederacy was about the only society self-confident enough for such a feat, and I think you see shadows of that today in Texas where native business leaders engage large armies of immigrant labor without feeling any guilt about it.  But as they will find out, the Texas of today, unlike the Confederacy, is one-man-one-vote, and what happened to California will eventually happen here if current trends continue.<br />
So libertarians are in a pickle here: open borders makes the sort of free society advocated by libertarians impossible, not in the abstract (which is the favorite destination of most libertarians), but due to the personnel limitations on the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Robertd</title>
		<link>http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5335</link>
		<dc:creator>Robertd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tomsbigpicture.com/2007/09/15/that-disappointing-vdare-interview-with-ron-paul/#comment-5335</guid>
		<description>Tom I don't see the big deal. Maybe if you could sum your thoughts up in a few sentences. I don't think LEGAL immigration is a problem.

One thing I try to explain to people is that, a free market society, would welcome immigration and legal immigrant workers. Once we get back to a free society where corruption is no more or at a minimum, people with work visas, lets say, would be welcome. Why? Because other jobs like manufacturing and such would boom, leaving other more manual jobs to be open to people willing to do them. I am an arhcitect, so doing farm labor is out of the question. But in this economy, I could get laid off soon for real. So what do i do? No jobs in the paper  for architects here at all, I can't work at a job for 1/3 the wage because some illegals are doing it. So I cant work period!! Thats the problem as I see it. If the economy was booming, hell bring in immagrant workers, but it isnt so we need to have jobs for Americans. And to boot, most came in illegally!!! I hope i made some sense.

What I would l like to see; no benefits!! Of course rounding up all illegals is impossible, but do what you can. Get the economy running at full strength, then open up to LEGAL immigrant workers. And lastly stop ILLEGAL immigration. Make people wait as my granparents did to come here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom I don&#8217;t see the big deal. Maybe if you could sum your thoughts up in a few sentences. I don&#8217;t think LEGAL immigration is a problem.</p>
<p>One thing I try to explain to people is that, a free market society, would welcome immigration and legal immigrant workers. Once we get back to a free society where corruption is no more or at a minimum, people with work visas, lets say, would be welcome. Why? Because other jobs like manufacturing and such would boom, leaving other more manual jobs to be open to people willing to do them. I am an arhcitect, so doing farm labor is out of the question. But in this economy, I could get laid off soon for real. So what do i do? No jobs in the paper  for architects here at all, I can&#8217;t work at a job for 1/3 the wage because some illegals are doing it. So I cant work period!! Thats the problem as I see it. If the economy was booming, hell bring in immagrant workers, but it isnt so we need to have jobs for Americans. And to boot, most came in illegally!!! I hope i made some sense.</p>
<p>What I would l like to see; no benefits!! Of course rounding up all illegals is impossible, but do what you can. Get the economy running at full strength, then open up to LEGAL immigrant workers. And lastly stop ILLEGAL immigration. Make people wait as my granparents did to come here.</p>
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